The first fighting match to ever take place between O'Sensei Urban and Master Nagle was held at 20 East 17th Street New York. I was privileged to be one of the first Black Belts to witness and judge this historical match between the two great Masters, along with Dr. Khemfoia Tol Padu, Gary Alexander, Mr. Buchholtz and other Black Belts. I distinctly remember one of the black belts making this statement that he thought we were not qualified to judge such a match in the point system. Sensei Nagle and Sensei Urban stepped aside to discuss the matter, and then returned to the center of the floor. Their response to that statement was; if you as Black Belts feel not capable of calling the points for us, then you should not be wearing a black belt. Later they apologized to us saying that we were right not wanting to call the point system, instead they put on a demonstration match.  At that time I was a Shodan, Gary Alexander was a Sandan and Dr.Padu was also a Shodan, and O'Sensei Urban and Master Nagle were   5th Dans.

Sincerely,

Shihan Verycken